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Post by Mandoli on Aug 31, 2016 17:47:36 GMT -5
By the way, I'll continue criticizing choices I disagree with and praising choices I agree with. Don't like it? Don't read my posts. We do have an ignore users feature here that some of you may want to take advantage of. Just sayin'. |
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Post by WarioSajak on Aug 31, 2016 18:29:43 GMT -5
For the record, I've never used the ignore feature on any forum I've frequented over the years. I'm fine with viewing everybody's opinions, even if I disagree with them.  Oh, just one more comment on the rigged shows. If you want to have a separate list for 'em, fine. But this is called the "Greatest" shows, and they don't belong, period. So the fact the rigged shows were rigged overrules everything else about them? By your logic, Tic-Tac-Dough doesn't belong on a list of the "Greatest" shows, either. By the way, I'll continue criticizing choices I disagree with and praising choices I agree with. Don't like it? Don't read my posts. To be honest, I don't mind your posts. I might disagree with some of the things you say, sure, but I'll defend your right to share your opinions all the same. (On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the "don't like, don't read" mantra in this context.) |
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 2, 2016 14:04:31 GMT -5
To be honest, no, I wouldn't put Tic Tac Dough on my top 50 list. Even the unrigged version tended to bore me. But you don't have to worry about it getting onto the Game Show Forum list. Oh well, another couple days, another set of five shows 36 through 40: Lingo, Remote Control, Carmen Sandiego, Gong Show, Treasure Hunt.
First, the good stuff. The placement is ridiculously low - I would put it in the top 10 - but Lingo at least gets onto the list. And the vote-collectors don't indulge in the same snide remarks as they did with Russian Roulette. They even admit that GSN's version with Woolery was by far the best. Hey, some honesty! To state the obvious, Lingo was just a terrific show and I'm loving the current reruns in the morning. Addictive gameplay, great play-along value, a perfect host who lightened things with occasional humor, and often very spirited competition. What's not to like? GSF is crazy to think that there are thirty-five game shows better than Lingo, but as I said, at least it gets onto the list somewhere.
Remote Control was always a personal favorite, and this time I think the placement on the list is about right. The show could get a little arch and cynical, but this was MTV, after all. Gotta love the contestant ejections. Almost as good as Russian Roulette.
I have a blind spot on Carmen Sandiego. I'll admit a terrible secret: I'm not much of a fan of kid game shows in general. I would put Legends of the Hidden Temple on my top 50 list and that would be about it. (Legends didn't make GSF's list in 2006 - neither did Carmen Sandiego - and I'm afraid it might miss out again. No accounting for tastes.) Anyhoo, Carmen was just too educational TV for me. Yeah, I know it was on PBS, so what do I expect? And Lynne Thigpen's consistent hamminess left me cold.
Gong Show wasn't really a game show with objective rules but rather a subjective talent (anti-talent?) contest. The vote-collectors more or less admit this, but what can they do? In a way, the show has been grandfathered into the genre, and its 1970s provenance will always get it onto GSF's list. I'm so-so on the show at best. Okay, I get the humor but it was too often just cruel. I'd probably find 50 real game shows to rank ahead of it.
Treasure Hunt was sort of Deal or No Deal without the interesting math...which means it didn't have much of anything, in my harsh opinion. It's off my list, but the show dates to the '50s and lasted a long time in several versions, so it's a lock for GSF.
UPDATE: Happened to notice that the average age of the bottom 15 this year is 39 years, compared to a relatively spry 32 years for the bottom 15 in 2006. Mostly it's the another-decade-of-dust effect on the selections. So far not one show that originated in the last ten years has appeared on the list to balance out the added age. (Deal or No Deal came closest with its 2005 origin.) And it's hard to see too many remaining slots going to relatively recent shows, with lots of obvious oldies waiting to get onto the list.
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Post by mdcswildcats86 on Sept 5, 2016 11:07:27 GMT -5
I take it FUN HOUSE did not make the top 50.
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 5, 2016 13:35:27 GMT -5
Fun House didn't make it yet, but they've got 35 more to go. So you never know (wink).
Speaking of which, the already slow reveal rate seems to have stopped dead. They haven't posted any more shows since last Friday. Maybe it's the Labor Day weekend, I dunno. At this rate, we may not get the number one show until Christmas (slight exaggeration).
With no new shows to discuss, the board is mostly criticizing Lingo and Deal or No Deal. You expect that from Game Show Forum, because these two shows are relatively recent. Some posters are saying that the foreign versions of DOND were much better than the American version. I don't buy that criticism, but you can't expect GSF to be enthusiastic about Howie's effort.
GSN's Lingo is getting drubbed because the bonus round was supposedly too long. Again, to me this just sounds like nitpicking a show that doesn't have the decades of dust which GSF prefers. I thought the time flew by in the bonus round as I tried to guess the words. (Happened to watch the Lingo reruns today on GSN. Just a fantastic show. I'd definitely vote it in the top ten.)
To give Game Show Forum a little credit, a few posters have a bit of praise for Lingo. The placement at #36 remains ridiculously low, though. But the show got onto the list somewhere, so I shouldn't complain too much. Russian Roulette also made the list, in a very pleasant surprise.
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Post by Mandoli on Sept 5, 2016 15:16:12 GMT -5
Fun House didn't make it yet, but they've got 35 more to go. So you never know (wink). is pretty much obsessed with the show. (Or is it really the twins?) |
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 5, 2016 17:49:15 GMT -5
Again, to me this just sounds like nitpicking a show that doesn't have the decades of dust which GSF prefers. And unsurprisingly, you're wrong. The Game Show Forum doesn't "prefer" older shows blindly, as you seem to suggest; for instance, Shopper's Casino is nearly 30 years old and is generally considered one of the worst game shows ever. With no new shows to discuss, the board is mostly criticizing Lingo and Deal or No Deal. You expect that from Game Show Forum, because these two shows are relatively recent. I love how you completely ignored the fact Lingo started in 1987. Some posters are saying that the foreign versions of DOND were much better than the American version. I don't buy that criticism, but you can't expect GSF to be enthusiastic about Howie's effort. They were enthusiastic for Season 1, but when Season 2 began with an eight-hour taping...yeah, that died down pretty quickly. Also, the British version (to give an example) focused on the contestant's journey (for lack of a better word) and how they played; the American network version was focused on money, screamy family members, and gimmicks. |
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Post by vahan on Sept 5, 2016 18:00:13 GMT -5
Even though I'm not ashamed to say "Older is Better", I wouldn't touch Shopper's Casino with a 10-foot-pole, from everything I've read about it.
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 5, 2016 18:04:59 GMT -5
The premiere is on YouTube, if you want to see the horror for yourself. (I've also made a topic linking to it in the Classics Talk section, since it hasn't been linked here before.)
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 5, 2016 19:07:11 GMT -5
I agree that Game Show Forum doesn't prefer older shows blindly. They prefer them with their eyes open. Anyhoo, the silly nitpicking about GSN Lingo's bonus round shows how persnickety the board gets about relatively recent shows. Of course, by normal TV standards GSN Lingo is practically prehistoric because it originated in 2002. And no, I'm not ignoring the fact that the original Lingo ran in 1987. I'm commenting on how nitpicky Game Show Forum is about the GSN version, which they certainly are on their 50 greatest thread. (Again, there's been some praise of GSN Lingo on the thread, too. But the cavilling about the bonus round is ridiculously overdone. The round is a ton of fun to watch and play along with.) I also don't buy GSF's criticism that foreign versions of Deal or No Deal are better than the American version. I've seen some of the foreign shows, and I don't think they're much different from the U.S. version, either for better or for worse. Although I do like how the models dance around the steps on the Phillipines show. I assume we'll finally get another five shows on the list tomorrow. For a board that thinks GSN Lingo's two-minute bonus round is too long, they're sure taking their own sweet time to post this 50 greatest list. UPDATE: I can't resist one more comment about the rigged shows. It's a paraphrase of what Bill James had to say about Shoeless Joe Jackson (google him if you don't recognize the name) getting into baseball's Hall of Fame... One of the roaringest debates about game shows is whether rigged programs should be honored with a place on a list of the greatest ever. My opinion is, of course they should. It's just a matter of priorities. After all, we should also list radio shows from the pre-TV era, like Information Please and Quiz Kids, which paved the way for the television programs. And then we should include shows that committed no crime except short runs, like You're in the Picture and The Rich List. It's not these shows' fault that Nielsen was grumpy about them. And how about state lottery shows and Monopoly Millionaires Club? The association with government sponsored gambling should not be held against them. Then there are shows from foreign countries, including Great Britain, Cambodia, Uruguay, Luxembourg and Vatican City. We don't want to be chauvinistic, do we? And then finally, when we have listed every honest game show ever broadcast anywhere on the planet, every honest show that helped make our genre such a great source of entertainment and enjoyment for countless millions of people instead of spreading the poison of deceit and fakery, then and only then should we hold our noses and put the rigged shows on the list. |
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 6, 2016 15:29:17 GMT -5
A new set of shows 31 through 35 is finally posted. No surprises at all for Game Show Forum, as all the shows date from the '60s, '70s and '80s, and they all made the list in 2006. The shows starting with number 31: Now You See It, Gambit, Whew, Chain Reaction, Who What or Where Game/Challengers. To cut to the chase, Gambit and WWWG/Challengers don't get near my list but I was almost certain they would show up on GSF's. (Catch 21 wouldn't make my list, either, despite an enjoyable if pure-chance final round. And it's absolutely no surprise that it didn't get a single vote on GSF.)
Give the vote-collectors credit, they at least glance at the possibility that Whew always gets onto the Game Show Forum lists because of the association with Randy Amasia. To be frank, that's what I think, too. Whew might land near my list but it's just not a good enough quizzer (or blooper-corrector or whatever you want to call it) in a genre full of good quizzers. I do like the semi-unpronounceable name. That's a gimmick which few have tried.
Now You See It is a hard case. I loves me my word games, but this one was low-key to the point of catatonia. Jack Narz didn't help by hosting in his most sedate style. In a way the show reminds me of That's the Question, GSN's 2006-07 effort. Which was also a word game with an interesting format that was just too quiet and cerebral for its own good. Of course, I don't expect GSF to vote That's the Question onto their list - it's from GSN and it's way too recent - but I can sort of (now I) see (it) top-50 slots for both of them as underappreciated obscurities. I dunno, just have to think about it. That's the question, after all.
Which leaves Chain Reaction. I wouldn't vote it onto the list for the frankly rather dull and disjointed versions from the '80s. But it definitely gets my vote - and probably around #30 - for GSN's Catherwood version, which I honestly think is the best incarnation. A funny, alert host and a format that corrects flaws of previous attempts, most notably the bonus round. By the way, the vote-collectors post an interesting discussion of just how "tight" the chains should be. I lean toward the tight two-word phrase side of the argument. Another reason I like the Catherwood version.
UPDATE: A forlorn GSF poster notes: "It appears the odds of any newer shows making [the list] are really long, not even a 3 time Emmy winner." The reference is to Cash Cab, by the way. (This poster had mentioned it before in the thread.) Sounds a little weird to hear an eleven-year-old show described as "newer" by normal TV standards, but this is Game Show Forum, after all.
Anyway, I agree that the list is shaping up as exactly the expected collection of oldies. Average age of the twenty selections so far: 40 years. The only real surprise for me was Russian Roulette, and I don't expect many (if any) more surprises.
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 8, 2016 13:21:33 GMT -5
Maybe I should take back all of the nasty things I've been saying about Game Show Forum! Oh well, I won't go quite that far (wink). But today's set of five shows 26 through 30 has an absolutely brilliant choice that somewhat redeems all the mediocre, overrated oldies the board is so fond of. And the other four picks are just fine, too. Numbers 26 through 30: The Chase, Newlywed Game, I've Got a Secret, Beat the Clock, Win Ben Stein's Money.
For once I can't disagree with any of these shows. Oh, Beat the Clock isn't my favorite format. I like the addition of the money tree in Minute To Win It (which of course won't make GSF's list). But BtC is hardly a bad selection.
Needless to say but I'll say it anyway, The Chase is the real goodie. The placement is still way too low - as I've said, I would put it in the top ten. But I was worried it would miss out altogether on the oldies board. I was also a little anxious that Win Ben Stein's Money would miss out, but it landed almost exactly where it did on the 2006 list. I've Got a Secret is my favorite of the old black and white shows - I'm enjoying the reruns on Buzzr - so I would like to have seen it in the top twenty. Same for Newlywed Game, the best of the relationship shows, in my opinion. But these are quibbles. All in all, this is easily the best set of five so far. No clunkers that only get on GSF's honor roll because they're old.
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 10, 2016 17:19:22 GMT -5
After getting nice with Game Show Forum, I'll get grumpy again. The next set of five 21 through 25: Joker's Wild, High Rollers, Double Dare, Split Second, Supermarket Sweep.
To be honest, if I were making the list based solely on personal preference, I would only include Supermarket Sweep from these five. It's the one shopping show I really like, and only for the mad dash at the end. I might include Joker's Wild and Double Dare for historical reasons, due to length of run and Jack Barry's (honest) return, even though neither show is much of a personal favorite. Split Second and High Rollers don't make my list for any reason. Just another couple of so-so formats from one of those decades so overrated by GSF, in my opinion.
With Double Dare and Carmen Sandiego on the list and only twenty more slots to go, I guess Legends of the Hidden Temple misses out again, just as it did in 2006. Hard to understand why the best kid show ever can't find a place somewhere amid the fifty. Sure, it's relatively "recent" by Game Show Forum standards, but it's still got almost a quarter-century on it.
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Post by caseyabell on Sept 12, 2016 14:22:04 GMT -5
The further we go into the Game Show Forum list, the older we get. Today's set of five has an average age of 54 years. Even by GSF standards, that's a large pile of dust. The return of the mummies, indeed. The shows from 16 through 20: Let's Make a Deal, To Tell the Truth, Blockbusters, Tic Tac Dough, Name That Tune.
To tell the truth (ahem) none of these shows are particular favorites of mine. But LMAD and TTTT would obviously get onto my top 50 list for historical reasons, not to mention that TTTT was Mark Goodson's personal favorite. I'm sorry, but Tic Tac Dough always bored me in both the rigged and unrigged versions. I would drop it from the list and I don't care who hollers about it. Blockbusters is an oddball choice for so high on the list, even for GSF. Sure, it's got age on it but the 18th best game show of all time? Come on. The poky, sleepy quizzer might make the list as an quirky, offbeat choice - though I wouldn't include it - but no way it ranks this high. Name That Tune is another show that I never honestly enjoyed all that much, but I might consider it a top-50 pick for historical reasons.
One GSF poster is wailing that Cash Cab won't make the list at all. I agree that the omission is inane, ridiculous, indefensible, and really not so bright. But what do you expect from the oldies board to end 'em all? Wait another twenty years and they might consider it.
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Post by addemup on Sept 12, 2016 20:48:53 GMT -5
The further we go into the Game Show Forum list, the older we get. Today's set of five has an average age of 54 years. Even by GSF standards, that's a large pile of dust. The return of the mummies, indeed. The shows from 16 through 20: Let's Make a Deal, To Tell the Truth, Blockbusters, Tic Tac Dough, Name That Tune.
To tell the truth (ahem) none of these shows are particular favorites of mine. But LMAD and TTTT would obviously get onto my top 50 list for historical reasons, not to mention that TTTT was Mark Goodson's personal favorite. I'm sorry, but Tic Tac Dough always bored me in both the rigged and unrigged versions. I would drop it from the list and I don't care who hollers about it. Blockbusters is an oddball choice for so high on the list, even for GSF. Sure, it's got age on it but the 18th best game show of all time? Come on. The poky, sleepy quizzer might make the list as an quirky, offbeat choice - though I wouldn't include it - but no way it ranks this high. Name That Tune is another show that I never honestly enjoyed all that much, but I might consider it a top-50 pick for historical reasons.
One GSF poster is wailing that Cash Cab won't make the list at all. I agree that the omission is inane, ridiculous, indefensible, and really not so bright. But what do you expect from the oldies board to end 'em all? Wait another twenty years and they might consider it.
You really have quite an aversion to any game show produced before 2000 don't you? I do agree with you however that just because a game show is old doesn't mean it's great. Every decade had its classics and its crap. There were a lot of garbage shows that came out of the 70's and 80's, but there has also been a lot of crap from the 00's and 10's. |
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